Category Archives: evangelical

Other gods….and the Atheists Who Love Them

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Someone I know put this up on Facebook.
I asked why this was a problem. God does acknowledge other gods. All I got was some scripture out of context and a ‘lesson’ on capital G and lower case g in the bible.
First off, the verse is taken out of context:  12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.
the whole chapter here which is about the first Passover.
~~
But I seriously would like to know what the deal is with atheists who think this is a problem?
Let’s look at God acknowledging other gods in the bible, shall we?
Here is a list of false gods in the bible http://jesusalive.cc/ques220.htm
There are so many mentions of other gods, here is a link: https://www.openbible.info/topics/other_gods.
This page articulates that there are no other Gods than God Himself. https://www.gci.org/God/howmany  , which I am not in agreement with, because they fudge the meaning of the word god too much.
And the First Commandment? Actually the first 2!
  1. You shall have no other gods before me.
  2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Other gods are false, they are half man half beast. Or all beast. They are all made into little idols. That people bow down to.

[let’s not get into the catholic statues right now, because that is idolatry also]

They are portrayed as weak and unseeing and God overcomes them countless times. God doesn’t want His people to worship another god, another idol.

It is said that each of the plagues of Egypt are set up to destroy the power of a certain god. Those gods didn’t save their Egyptians. God wrecked havoc on the land, the people, the animals and no other god could stop Him.

Scripture itself pretty much states the obvious truth:

 

 

Exodus 23:13 ESV / 71 helpful votes

“Pay attention to all that I have said to you, and make no mention of the names of other gods, nor let it be heard on your lips.

Deuteronomy 6:14 ESV / 68 helpful votes

You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are around you—

Isaiah 44:6 ESV / 66 helpful votes

Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

John 14:6 ESV / 53 helpful votes

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Deuteronomy 32:17 ESV / 41 helpful votes

They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded.

1 Corinthians 8:1-8 ESV / 27 helpful votes

Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— …

Exodus 20:1-5 ESV / 26 helpful votes

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Joshua 24:2 ESV / 22 helpful votes

And Joshua said to all the people, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘Long ago, your fathers lived beyond the Euphrates, Terah, the father of Abraham and of Nahor; and they served other gods.

John 3:19 ESV / 19 helpful votes

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV / 15 helpful votes

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. …

Jeremiah 7:9 ESV / 14 helpful votes

Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known,

Exodus 15:11 ESV / 14 helpful votes

“Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in glorious deeds, doing wonders?

1 Samuel 5:2-7 ESV / 13 helpful votes

Then the Philistines took the ark of God and brought it into the house of Dagon and set it up beside Dagon. And when the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, behold, Dagon had fallen face downward on the ground before the ark of the Lord. So they took Dagon and put him back in his place. But when they rose early on the next morning, behold, Dagon had fallen face downward on the ground before the ark of the Lord, and the head of Dagon and both his hands were lying cut off on the threshold. Only the trunk of Dagon was left to him. This is why the priests of Dagon and all who enter the house of Dagon do not tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod to this day. The hand of the Lord was heavy against the people of Ashdod, and he terrified and afflicted them with tumors, both Ashdod and its territory. …

1 John 4:1 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Joshua 23:7-16 ESV / 11 helpful votes

That you may not mix with these nations remaining among you or make mention of the names of their gods or swear by them or serve them or bow down to them, but you shall cling to the Lord your God just as you have done to this day. For the Lord has driven out before you great and strong nations. And as for you, no man has been able to stand before you to this day. One man of you puts to flight a thousand, since it is the Lord your God who fights for you, just as he promised you. Be very careful, therefore, to love the Lord your God. …

Genesis 3:22 ESV / 11 helpful votes

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”

Revelation 2:14 ESV / 10 helpful votes

But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.

Acts 4:12 ESV / 10 helpful votes

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Deuteronomy 28:14 ESV / 10 helpful votes

And if you do not turn aside from any of the words that I command you today, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

Deuteronomy 10:17 ESV / 10 helpful votes

For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.

Jeremiah 32:35 ESV / 9 helpful votes

They built the high places of Baal in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Psalm 135:15-18 ESV / 9 helpful votes

The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of human hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; they have eyes, but do not see; they have ears, but do not hear, nor is there any breath in their mouths. Those who make them become like them, so do all who trust in them!

Exodus 12:12 ESV / 9 helpful votes

For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.

Romans 1:25 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

Psalm 119:105 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.

2 Chronicles 15:3-6 ESV / 8 helpful votes

For a long time Israel was without the true God, and without a teaching priest and without law, but when in their distress they turned to the Lord, the God of Israel, and sought him, he was found by them. In those times there was no peace to him who went out or to him who came in, for great disturbances afflicted all the inhabitants of the lands. They were broken in pieces. Nation was crushed by nation and city by city, for God troubled them with every sort of distress.

1 Kings 18:21 ESV / 8 helpful votes

And Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.” And the people did not answer him a word.

Deuteronomy 11:16-18 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Take care lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the heavens, so that there will be no rain, and the land will yield no fruit, and you will perish quickly off the good land that the Lord is giving you. “You shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.

Revelation 16:14 ESV / 7 helpful votes

For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.

Ezekiel 16:28 ESV / 7 helpful votes

You played the whore also with the Assyrians, because you were not satisfied; yes, you played the whore with them, and still you were not satisfied.

2 Kings 18:17-36 ESV / 7 helpful votes

And the king of Assyria sent the Tartan, the Rab-saris, and the Rabshakeh with a great army from Lachish to King Hezekiah at Jerusalem. And they went up and came to Jerusalem. When they arrived, they came and stood by the conduit of the upper pool, which is on the highway to the Washer’s Field. And when they called for the king, there came out to them Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, who was over the household, and Shebnah the secretary, and Joah the son of Asaph, the recorder. And the Rabshakeh said to them, “Say to Hezekiah, ‘Thus says the great king, the king of Assyria: On what do you rest this trust of yours? Do you think that mere words are strategy and power for war? In whom do you now trust, that you have rebelled against me? Behold, you are trusting now in Egypt, that broken reed of a staff, which will pierce the hand of any man who leans on it. Such is Pharaoh king of Egypt to all who trust in him. …

2 Kings 17:29-41 ESV / 7 helpful votes

But every nation still made gods of its own and put them in the shrines of the high places that the Samaritans had made, every nation in the cities in which they lived. The men of Babylon made Succoth-benoth, the men of Cuth made Nergal, the men of Hamath made Ashima, and the Avvites made Nibhaz and Tartak; and the Sepharvites burned their children in the fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim. They also feared the Lord and appointed from among themselves all sorts of people as priests of the high places, who sacrificed for them in the shrines of the high places. So they feared the Lord but also served their own gods, after the manner of the nations from among whom they had been carried away. …

1 Samuel 7:3 ESV / 7 helpful votes

And Samuel said to all the house of Israel, “If you are returning to the Lord with all your heart, then put away the foreign gods and the Ashtaroth from among you and direct your heart to the Lord and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.”

Exodus 15:26 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Saying, “If you will diligently listen to the voice of the Lord your God, and do that which is right in his eyes, and give ear to his commandments and keep all his statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you that I put on the Egyptians, for I am the Lord, your healer.”

2 Peter 2:14-18 ESV / 6 helpful votes

They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error.

Micah 6:3-5 ESV / 6 helpful votes

“O my people, what have I done to you? How have I wearied you? Answer me! For I brought you up from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, and I sent before you Moses, Aaron, and Miriam. O my people, remember what Balak king of Moab devised, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him, and what happened from Shittim to Gilgal, that you may know the saving acts of the Lord.”

Proverbs 18:22 ESV / 6 helpful votes

He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord.

Psalm 115:4-11 ESV / 6 helpful votes

Their idols are silver and gold, the work of human hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see. They have ears, but do not hear; noses, but do not smell. They have hands, but do not feel; feet, but do not walk; and they do not make a sound in their throat. Those who make them become like them; so do all who trust in them. …

2 Chronicles 13:5-10 ESV / 6 helpful votes

Ought you not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave the kingship over Israel forever to David and his sons by a covenant of salt? Yet Jeroboam the son of Nebat, a servant of Solomon the son of David, rose up and rebelled against his lord, and certain worthless scoundrels gathered about him and defied Rehoboam the son of Solomon, when Rehoboam was young and irresolute and could not withstand them. “And now you think to withstand the kingdom of the Lord in the hand of the sons of David, because you are a great multitude and have with you the golden calves that Jeroboam made you for gods. Have you not driven out the priests of the Lord, the sons of Aaron, and the Levites, and made priests for yourselves like the peoples of other lands? Whoever comes for ordination with a young bull or seven rams becomes a priest of what are no gods. …

2 Kings 21:6 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And he burned his son as an offering and used fortune-telling and omens and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.

Judges 5:8 ESV / 6 helpful votes

When new gods were chosen, then war was in the gates. Was shield or spear to be seen among forty thousand in Israel?

Joshua 24:15 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 ESV / 6 helpful votes

“If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Deuteronomy 12:29-31 ESV / 6 helpful votes

“When the Lord your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.

Numbers 23:7 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And Balaam took up his discourse and said, “From Aram Balak has brought me, the king of Moab from the eastern mountains: ‘Come, curse Jacob for me, and come, denounce Israel!’

Leviticus 26:1-46 ESV / 6 helpful votes

“You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God. You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord. “If you walk in my statutes and observe my commandments and do them, then I will give you your rains in their season, and the land shall yield its increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. Your threshing shall last to the time of the grape harvest, and the grape harvest shall last to the time for sowing. And you shall eat your bread to the full and dwell in your land securely. …

Exodus 32:1-35 ESV / 6 helpful votes

When the people saw that Moses delayed to come down from the mountain, the people gathered themselves together to Aaron and said to him, “Up, make us gods who shall go before us. As for this Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.” So Aaron said to them, “Take off the rings of gold that are in the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.” So all the people took off the rings of gold that were in their ears and brought them to Aaron. And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the Lord.” …

Exodus 20:1-26 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, …

Exodus 13:17 ESV / 6 helpful votes

When Pharaoh let the people go, God did not lead them by way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near. For God said, “Lest the people change their minds when they see war and return to Egypt.”

3 John 1:9 ESV / 5 helpful votes

I have written something to the church, but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority.

Titus 1:12 ESV / 5 helpful votes

One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

1 Corinthians 15:32 ESV / 5 helpful votes

What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

1 Corinthians 5:1 ESV / 5 helpful votes

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife.

Acts 19:34 ESV / 5 helpful votes

But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all cried out with one voice, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”

Acts 19:13-16 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims.” Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Isaiah 45:5-6 ESV / 5 helpful votes

I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other.

Isaiah 44:8 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”

2 Kings 17:31 ESV / 5 helpful votes

And the Avvites made Nibhaz and Tartak; and the Sepharvites burned their children in the fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.

Judges 14:1-18:31 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Samson went down to Timnah, and at Timnah he saw one of the daughters of the Philistines. Then he came up and told his father and mother, “I saw one of the daughters of the Philistines at Timnah. Now get her for me as my wife.” But his father and mother said to him, “Is there not a woman among the daughters of your relatives, or among all our people, that you must go to take a wife from the uncircumcised Philistines?” But Samson said to his father, “Get her for me, for she is right in my eyes.” His father and mother did not know that it was from the Lord, for he was seeking an opportunity against the Philistines. At that time the Philistines ruled over Israel. Then Samson went down with his father and mother to Timnah, and they came to the vineyards of Timnah. And behold, a young lion came toward him roaring. …

Deuteronomy 1:1-34:12 ESV / 5 helpful votes

These are the words that Moses spoke to all Israel beyond the Jordan in the wilderness, in the Arabah opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Hazeroth, and Dizahab. It is eleven days’ journey from Horeb by the way of Mount Seir to Kadesh-barnea. In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses spoke to the people of Israel according to all that the Lord had given him in commandment to them, after he had defeated Sihon the king of the Amorites, who lived in Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, who lived in Ashtaroth and in Edrei. Beyond the Jordan, in the land of Moab, Moses undertook to explain this law, saying, …

Leviticus 18:21 ESV / 5 helpful votes

You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Exodus 18:11 ESV / 4 helpful votes

Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods, because in this affair they dealt arrogantly with the people.”

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There is a lot of info here, but someone please tell me what the problem with God acknowledging other gods!
~~
“Pagan idols are silver and gold,
the work of human hands.
They have mouths but they cannot speak
They have eyes but they cannot see.
They have ears but they cannot hear,
They have nostrils but they cannot smell.
With their hands they cannot feel,
With their feet they cannot walk,
No sound comes from their throats.
Their makers will come to be like them
And so will all who trust in them.
Sons of Jacob, trust in the Lord
— he is their help and their shield.” (Ps. 115)

Love Might Win the Wayward in Your Life [REPOST]

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This hit home for me:

If you are paired with a prodigal, you know pain. Few trials slice as deeply as the spouse who goes rogue, the child who rebels, or the sibling who spins out of control. Rejecting their role and shutting out those that love them, wayward souls thunder with reckless entitlement, myopic selfishness, and chaotic, grief-instigating choices.

It’s a world of indescribable, emotional turmoil. Here’s some reasons why.

You flog yourself with the “why-stick” — why is this happening to them? Why is this happening to us? To me? Why? Whack. Whack. Whack. “Why?” is a cross that lovers of the wayward carry.

Often, they carry an ironic shame, too. With the wayward, a subtle paradox appears: the prodigal acts shamefully and feels justified — you love them sacrificially and feel ashamed. It’s a hellish twist on the idea of justification — their shame imputed to you.

Additionally, prodigals possess a dangerous, life-sucking power. They siphon the fuel out of those who love them in a “weariness-war.” The effects of this power take you beyond mere fatigue to a mind-enfeebling, soul-sapping, confidence-wrecking, depression-inciting, bone-tiring exhaustion.

What the Wayward Want

1. Choices Without Consequences

For someone fleeing from God, freedom is typically the ability to pursue desires without the burden of responsibility for their decision. John, infatuated with another woman, left Sally and their marriage of ten years in pursuit of freedom. When this appeared unstable to a judge, and Sally was awarded custody of the kids, John was outraged. Why?

A prodigal doesn’t typically engage in moral reasoning, so consequences strike them as offensive, unjust, or excessive. They fail to see that true freedom recognizes and honors the God-installed fences that define the borders between good and bad, wisdom and folly, sowing and reaping.

2. Autonomy Without Accountability

Wayward people want autonomy without the rule of love. They want a world where their wants are met without question or accountability. For the prodigal, life is about indulging desire, not accepting responsibility. The results are often disastrous.

Charlene is rarely cooperative, often stoned, and has little tolerance for discussion about how she spends her time or money. Charlene seeks a world where she can freely indulge and never explain. When accountability comes knocking, she withdraws behind an impenetrable emotional wall of unfettered autonomy, away from meddlesome scrutiny.

Few things plant a family in the manure of dysfunction quicker than feeding the delusion that one can live autonomously, yet dependent; unaccountable, yet family-funded.

What the Wayward Need

Ask the average Joe or Jaclyn about “love,” and their answers will skim the shallow pond of sentimental feelings, magnetic attraction, or the thrill of someone who makes them feel alive. Christians reject the merely sentimental and embrace a more robust vision of love. “By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us” (1 John 3: 16).

At the eternal core of biblical love, we find a rugged cross. Blood-drenched yet triumphantly empty, this cross testifies to a promise-keeping love that goes beyond trifling sentiment. Think of it as “rugged love” — a love with teeth!

Love is rugged when it is

  • strong enough to face evil;
  • tenacious enough to do good;
  • courageous enough to enforce consequences;
  • sturdy enough to be patient;
  • resilient enough to forgive;
  • trusting enough to pray boldly.

Consider just two examples.

Strong Enough to Face Evil

Pete knows Becky is a serial adulterer, but he says nothing. Claire believes her brother is on drugs, but she won’t probe. Tammy overlooks the cruel comments her husband makes about her in public. Though each situation is distinct, they are all connected by a common compromise: Pete, Claire, and Tammy are all tolerating evil. If you ask them why, they say they do it all for love.

The Bible says, “Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil” (Romans 12:9). True and genuine love abhors evil. It means that we have eyes to see evil and the courage to respond to it. Sin and folly inhabit the soul of the wayward like unwelcome squatters. If these vices are ever to be expelled, they can’t be ignored or hidden, but must be honestly named and exposed.

Love goes beyond prodigal management to the deeper power of gospel application.

The gospel of God’s justification of evil people does not deny evil. In fact, the gospel shows us God’s deepest feelings about evil — he abhors it. “The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men” (Romans 1:18). God’s wrath is his settled and determined response to injustice, sin, rebellion, and evil. The gospel showcases how God met radical depravity with genuine, rugged love.

Let’s face it, loving like this is not simple or easy for us. To get here, you need to experience this love yourself, a love so sturdy that it enables you to face your biggest fears — rejection, anxiety over the unknown, failure. Giving rugged love begins by receiving the rugged love of God and holding fast to the promises of the gospel, knowing that he will never leave us or abandon us (Hebrews 13:5) and that he is truly with us until the end (Matthew 28:20).

Tenacious Enough to Do Good

Naming evil is an important step, but it is only a first step. Love is made rugged by a tenacious commitment to “not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:21).

By doing positive good — responding with godly, rugged love — we overcome the evil that has been done. But if things deteriorate, we need to be ready for the painful reality that love may require letting a prodigal go. In the heart-breaking act of letting go, our intent is not to punish the person or to retaliate for what they have done to us. We must not meet evil with evil. When we do, everyone loses, and no one gets loved.

Rather, we let go as a way to do good.

Doing good requires tenacity, because the moments when it’s most necessary are the same moments when it’s most difficult. As Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend.”

Desperate Times Need Deeper Love

Anyone embracing rugged love faces huge emotional hurdles. It feels like we are piling on, almost as if we saw a drunk stumble in the street and decided to kick him to teach him a lesson. But if we’re serious about helping people enslaved in selfishness, we will find faith to think honestly and deeply about the gracious grit of genuine love.

Don’t be afraid. Speak the truth in love, and trust Jesus. He may surprise you.

Just Some Junk I have been Doing and Reading

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6/26

Faith Crisis: questions. Why did God have to make all the Adam and Eve bullshit… I mean, within the context of the bible it seems to all make sense but in life, it does not. Why did God give us the bible? Or is it just man made religion? Is all this just man made religion? and if it is, then what or who do we believe? what does God really want from us?

I think I let my worship of man get in the way of my faith. So disappointed in frail humans. including myself.

And heaven and hell. I would almost rather believe we are just gone after we die. done. finished. Finito.

Missions Trip: going on a missions trip over the mountains to the Native Yakama Nation reservation. It will be my 5th year and I am super excited to see everyone and do a little bit of good, love on some kids, fix some houses, fellowship. Oh and its supposed to be over 100 degrees. NOT looking forward to that. AT. ALL.

Calvinist snob: I have become what I dislike about others. A Calvinistic snob. Oh, I am trying to rectify it, trust me, but when I made a comment about some church spewing arminian crap… I kinda realized. I’m fixing it.

Rick Scarborough: Wingnut

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7/5

   QUOTE:  “Fulchum, you think you know everything.  But you don’t know the difference between an inconvenience and a problem.”

“If you break your neck, if you have nothing to eat, if your house is on fire- then you have a problem.  Everything else is inconvenience, Life IS inconvenient.  Life IS lumpy.”

   “Learn to separate the inconveniences from the real problems .  You will live longer.  And will not annoy people like me so much.   Good night.”

Missions Trip: hard but good. love being back with all the Sacred Road peeps. Love love love being back with the Sacred Road team and meeting all the church teams that came out this year.

IMG_20150703_225614

This medicine pouch was made by and given to me by a native woman who is active with the ministry. She and her kids are dear friends and I am so honored to have received this. sacred road 2015 040picture from Kids club

IMG_20150629_115513 IMG_20150704_094619before and after pictures of the house we helped paint, roof and built a porch

 

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just some stuff i read…..

http://boz.religionnews.com/2015/07/10/when-the-church-prefers-perpetrators/

http://boz.religionnews.com/2015/06/12/responding-to-sibling-sexual-abuse-what-to-do-and-why/

Christians are like manure, in a pile they stink. Spread out on the land they enrich the soil.

Sense of Entitlement: http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/Entitlement.html

7/11

I keep getting ideas for posts, then petering out. But, for the sake of time and energy, here is some stuff I wrote down.

enjoy.

Musings on…. being a Deacon’s Wife

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12/19/2014

I pulled some verses about being a deacon, and added to that, a deacon’s wife. I bolded the parts I thought pertained to the wife.

Of course everything that pertains to a deacon should pertain to his wife, they are both servants of the Most High God.

I thought about going over this ‘list’ and typing what what I thought I was doing well at, being a deacon’s wife.

BUT there wasn’t much I could type.

Sidenote: I write this post to remind myself or convict myself of what I need to do better or pray for…. since my husband is on ‘deacon sabbatical’ because he couldn’t control his wife.

[good article from Grace to You]

1 Timothy 3:8-13 ESV

Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.

Acts 6:1-6 ESV

Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 ESV

The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?

John 12:26 ESV

If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.

Titus 1:6-9 ESV

If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

Acts 20:28 ESV

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

1 Timothy 3:2 ESV

Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Romans 12:1 ESV / 3 helpful votes

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

1 Timothy 2:8-15
8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

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1/1/2015

I have had this post in my ‘drafts’ folder for a while now.  Everytime I try to write about it, I get mad. And sad.

I have never been the normal deacons wife. I am not like any of the other deacons wives.  I am an oxymoron of sorts. To look at me would be to see a crazy casual non traditional [read tattooed, pierced, hair colored or dreaded, bit overweight, pants wearing, farm animal owning ] woman. I don’t go for fashion, I go for comfort and modesty. I am heavily tatted but not heavily ornamented, i.e. manicures, trimmed hair or brows, lots of jewelry, etc.

My theology is really conservative, Calvinistic, reformed and bible based. But you wouldn’t know it by my looks or my family. I believe in the words of the bible being God’s words, but I tend to not push them on others. I have no qualms about speaking what I believe, writing out things I struggle with and giving freely. I believe in the church being in community with the community, with families learning how to preach/teach/show the gospel, to be open to sharing their lives with non-believers. To have one on one discipleship and group evangelicalism.

I fight for the underdog, I love animals more than people, I take anti depressants, I see a counselor, my marriage isn’t perfect by far. I tend to rest on the negative side of life and forget my joy. I drink too much, cuss too much and I eat too much. I feel too much. I tend to think all people think like me [boy, do I ever get shocked when I find out they don’t]. I tend to live in extremes. I tend to think highly of people and then get disappointed by them when they turn out to be…just sinful people. Just. like. me.

Earlier this year I was [and still am] struggling with some issues with my church from the past. Some of my closest friends are involved and I have gone about things in the wrong way. I’m not sure I can or want to apologize for anything I said and I am not sure anything I said was wrong, I just said them out of turn and not in a nice way. I was told I was disparaging the church and leadership of the church in a not-so-nice meeting to discuss what could be done at the church so things that happened in the past would not be repeated.

I went visiting other churches and my husband who was a deacon, and a damn good one at that,  got put on sabbatical because he could not control his wife. I’m not quite sure if he was put on because I was visiting other churches or because I stood up and addressed the council [even opposed them in a way] maybe both.  I have been repeatedly chastised for being honest about myself and people around me, including my church, in my blog writing.

When my hubby was asked to be a deacon he made it quite clear that he could not control me and was fine with it. He understood where I was coming from and felt that the good things I did way overpowered the bad. The council understood that and I guess was ok with it as long as it wasn’t directed negatively toward the church.

I cannot change the things that were done wrong in the past, I can only strive to stir the hearts of the leadership to make changes for the better in the church.

I cannot change how things were done in the past where my long-time friends are concerned and I can only hope and pray no more damage will be done and that I can get over things [that really didn’t even have to do with me personally] I should actually mind my own business and not worry about what happens to others, right? I should really just come to terms with the fact that people who I thought were my elders in spiritual and earthly things can and, in fact, do make wrong decisions [even if they are only wrong in my head]

My husband is patiently waiting out some leadership decisions and I am standing with one foot out of the door. Maybe I just need to come to terms with all this in my head and my heart before long. Yeah probably.

Would I be a different deacons wife if my husband got reinstated? Nope. Is that a good thing?

 

 

 

The 5 Christian Fundamentals with Scripture Proofs

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1. The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28 So Jesus said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.

Hebrews 1:8-9

But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

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2. The Virgin Birth

Isaiah 7:14; Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23;

21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:

23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel”
(which means, God with us)

Luke 1:27: 26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary.

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3. The Blood Atonement

Acts 20:28; Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Romans 3:25, 5:9; For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

5:9:  Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Ephesians 1:7; In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Hebrews 9:12-14; 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

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4. The Bodily Resurrection

Luke 24:36-46;

As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. 38 And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate before them.

44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4;

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

15:14-15; 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised.

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5. The inerrancy of the scriptures themselves

Psalms 12:6-7; The words of the Lord are pure words,
like silver refined in a furnace on the ground,
purified seven times.
7 You, O Lord, will keep them;
you will guard us from this generation forever.

Romans 15:4; 4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
2 Timothy 3:16-17;  All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:20;  19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Musings on …. Fundamentals of Christianity

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Hi Council Members and new readers to my little blog, happy reading!

I was visiting a church today and they spoke of how the word fundamental was originally intended, so I had to come home and look it up:

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fundamentalist (adj.) Look up fundamentalist at Dictionary.com1920 in the religious sense (as is fundamentalism), from fundamental + -ist. Coined in American English to name a movement among Protestants c.1920-25 based on scriptural inerrancy, etc., and associated with William Jennings Bryan, among others.

Fundamentalist is said (by George McCready Price) to have been first used in print by Curtis Lee Laws (1868-1946), editor of “The Watchman Examiner,” a Baptist newspaper. The movement may have roots in the Presbyterian General Assembly of 1910, which drew up a list of five defining qualities of “true believers” which other evangelicals published in a mass-circulation series of books called “The Fundamentals.” A World’s Christian Fundamentals Association was founded in 1918. The words reached widespread use in the wake of the contentious Northern Baptist Convention of 1922 in Indianapolis.

Fundamentalism is a protest against that rationalistic interpretation of Christianity which seeks to discredit supernaturalism. This rationalism, when full grown, scorns the miracles of the Old Testament, sets aside the virgin birth of our Lord as a thing unbelievable, laughs at the credulity of those who accept many of the New Testament miracles, reduces the resurrection of our Lord to the fact that death did not end his existence, and sweeps away the promises of his second coming as an idle dream. It matters not by what name these modernists are known. The simple fact is that, in robbing Christianity of its supernatural content, they are undermining the very foundations of our holy religion. They boast that they are strengthening the foundations and making Christianity more rational and more acceptable to thoughtful people. Christianity is rooted and grounded in supernaturalism, and when robbed of supernaturalism it ceases to be a religion and becomes an exalted system of ethics. [Laws, “Herald & Presbyter,” July 19, 1922]

The original opposition to fundamentalist (within the denominations) was modernist.

A new word has been coined into our vocabulary — two new words — ‘Fundamentalist’ and ‘Fundamentalism.’ They are not in the dictionaries as yet — unless in the very latest editions. But they are on everyone’s tongue. [Address Delivered at the Opening of the Seminary, Sept. 20, 1922, by Professor Harry Lathrop Reed, “Auburn Seminary Record”]

Applied to other religions, especially Islam, since 1957.

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fundamental (adj.) Look up fundamental at Dictionary.commid-15c., “primary, original, pertaining to a foundation,” modeled on Late Latin fundamentalis “of the foundation,” from Latin fundamentum “foundation” (see fundament). Fundamentals“primary principles or rules” of anything is from 1630s.

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What are the Christian Fundamentals?

The idea of Christian Fundamentalism first emerged as a movement in the 19th century within various Protestant bodies, who reacted against the rising tide of evolutionary theories and modernist Biblical criticism. From a Bible conference of Conservative Protestants meeting in Niagara in 1895, a statement was issued containing what came to be known as the five points of fundamentalism: The verbal inerrancy of Scripture, the divinity of Jesus Christ, the virgin birth, a substitutionary theory of the atonement, and the physical resurrection and bodily return of Christ.¹

from here

~~ Even in these 5, they are differences…

The inerrancy of the Bible
The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ’s miracles and the Creation account in Genesis
The Virgin Birth of Christ
The bodily resurrection and physical return of Christ
The substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross

1. The virgin birth and deity of Jesus.

2. The substitutionary death of Jesus.

3. The resurrection of Jesus Christ.

4. The verbal inspiration of the Scriptures.

5. The second coming of Christ.

1. The Trinity: God is one “What” and three “Whos” with each “Who” possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

1) The inerrancy and full authority of the Bible.

2) The virgin birth and full Deity of Jesus Christ.

3) The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

4) Christ’s atoning, vicarious death for the sins of the world.

5) The literal second coming of Jesus Christ.

1. The Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:1; John 20:28; Hebrews 1:8-9).
2. The Virgin Birth (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23; Luke 1:27).
3. The Blood Atonement (Acts 20:28; Romans 3:25, 5:9; Ephesians 1:7;
Hebrews 9:12-14).
4. The Bodily Resurrection (Luke 24:36-46; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 15:14-15).
5. The inerrancy of the scriptures themselves (Psalms 12:6-7; Romans 15:4;
2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20).  See my next post for the scriptures to accompany.

Inerrancy of the Bible.
Literal truth of the Bible.
The virgin birth and divinity of Jesus Christ. Fundamentalists hold this against encroaching materialism which denies the supernatural.
The doctrine of atonement through substitution, a Calvinist doctrinal innovation according to which Christ inserts his own perfect record, in place of ours, into the divine retributive mechanism. This fundamental is held in opposition to the early Church’s “ransom” and “moral uplift” theories of atonement.
The bodily resurrection of Jesus and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ. This is a critical building block for Christian fundamentalist movements that deny responsibility for global warming, since the end of the world is near.

Infallibility of the Bible. The fundamentalist views the Bible as a divinely-inspired work authored by men acting under the direction of God, and as such is entirely error-free.
Biblical literalism. Biblical literalism is an approach to Biblical interpretation; literalists hold that the meaning of the text is given by the plain meaning of the author(s). Only those passages which are clearly allegorical or symbolic ought to be understood as allegory or symbolism. That said, discerning which passages are clearly allegorical is exceedingly difficult.
The virgin birth of Jesus Christ. Fundamentalists hold this against encroaching materialism which denies the supernatural.
The doctrine of substitutionary atonement. Christ inserts his own perfect record, in place of ours, into the divine retributive mechanism.
The bodily resurrection of Jesus and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ. This fundamental is held in opposition to those who say Jesus appeared to Peter as a spirit, or that He will return only in a symbolic sense.

~~

I believe in these 5. I’m a Christian fundy!

Addl reading…

From here

and here

a Study of Denominations here